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Talk Back 118
On Satan, demons and devils

by: Cat

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Clearly in the biblical scriptures, YHVH can see the future. His prophets saw the future and it would be silly to assume that he cannot do so himself.

So...in church doctrine, satan rebelled and fell from heaven but YHVH allowed him to exist so that he may tempt us to sin.

ut...YHVH hates sin, loves good and there is no evil in him (1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16, Matt 19:17).

That brings me to the question of "If YHVH knew that this satan would rebel 'before' he created him as YHVH knows all things (Job 34:21, Isaiah 46:10, Isaiah 42:9, Isaiah 44:7, Daniel 2:28, Acts 3:18, 1 Ch 28:9) then why did he create this being, knowing how he would turn out? Seeing that he hates sin, evil and unrighteousness.

First, let's just define sin, evil, good, morals, just and righteousness in case there are any church goers reading, who clearly do not know the meaning of these words.

Sin: an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law. (That's divine law, the laws of YHVH, NOT the laws of a church)

Evil: profoundly immoral and wicked. (So if you hate evil, you can say you hate immorality because you love morality)

Good: that which is morally right; righteousness.(So good is not immoral, good is morally correct)

Morals: standards of behaviour; principles of right and wrong (Knowing the difference between evil and good, right and wrong)

Just: based on or behaving according to what is morally right and fair. (Fair in judgement)

Righteousness: the quality of being morally right or justifiable.(See above descriptions)

If YHVH loves righteousness, good and justice, why on this earth would he create any evil beings like church doctrine tells you?

He didn't!

We have freewill, we choose. Church goers argue that we don't have freewill...but if we do not have free will then we cannot choose to follow the gospel or any other part of any scripture. So what is the point in this existence? If the above comment was infact true, then YHVH is playing with us, we are but a game to him, and he uses us for amusement purposes and all of the instructions in the book now become lies. Not the way of a fair, morally correct and good, loving creator though.

The word satan in hebrew, as I said before, means adversary or enemy.

The greek word for devil means slanderer.

These words are sometimes translated as devil and satan, and sometimes slanderer and adversary...but the words are the same.

Some examples in Timothy 1 and 2:

1 Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

1 Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

1 Ti 3:11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

2 Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

2 Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

All of the words in bold use the same word in the greek, which is 'diabolos'.

I don't believe in devils and satan beings, thats pathetic, immoral and serves nothing but to slander the name of YHVH.

Lets just translate the devil word the same way in all those verses:

Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the slanderer.

Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the slanderer.

Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the slanderer, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Without natural affection, trucebreakers, slanderers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

Or this way:


Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Even so must their wives be grave, not devils, sober, faithful in all things.

And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Without natural affection, trucebreakers, devils, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

This verse in particular stands out to me:

Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the slanderer

To have a good report of someone is to say good things about them.

To slander is to make false and damaging statements about them.

It makes alot more sense in every way to translate that word as slanderer.

Now look at the church doctrine of devils and satan, neither exist, man is evil enough in himself. YHVH can create the entire universe, but cannot see that the men he creates, are capable of evil. So he makes evil beings in order to make men do evil things, the very things he himself hates?

Again, YHVH is appearing to be a gameplayer and suffering from many mental disorders according to the churches.

When it talks of evil spirits before this is brought up, my take on that is we all have spirits inside our flesh and bone bodies.

We are either evil or we are good, when our bodies die, we are still the same person.

So if you were evil in life, you will be evil after your body ceases to function. Spirits are in us, spirits aren't just beings outside of bodies.

I have a spirit, it is in me. I do not see my spirit as evil, but the church goers do. They say I am under the influence of satan because I deny his existence.

In any case, satan and devils are nothing but pagan creations and additions...and they serve no purpose but to act as excuses for man's evil deeds and to slander the name of YHVH in the process.

Apply this to the fact that in the gospel, 'Jesus' says (Matt 7:14)"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

Well if one takes his words seriously, then one can know that following christianity is not the narrow way.

If they are all 'saved' by their understanding, then 'Jesus' was lying, so then inturn, how can they be saved?

Almost 2 and half billion christians in the world, that is not a few. Especially when compared to the 144000 of the twelve tribes, in revelation 7:3-4

"Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred forty four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel."

So there are only 144k servants of God and they are all Israelites. Now thats what I call a few.

The way to be 'saved' is to believe and be baptized in his name. (Mar 16:16)

Now the word for name does not mean his moniker, but rather his character. I cannot understand how any christian can say that they must be baptized in his moniker. Do you, as a person with morals,(I believe most agnostics have good morals) take offence if someone pronounces your moniker wrong?

I should hope not, as it is a trivial thing, please do not answer yes to that, just to argue with me.
Rather I would take offence and with cause, if someone started saying nasty things about me, ie slandering my name.

You can see why devils are the enemy of YHVH and of man.

If his name is slandered, which it is, then not one of these christians can say they are baptized in his name. They have been deceived by the enemy and the slanderer.

It makes alot more sense for him to baptize you himself, when you know his character and not in the manner of hypocritical, slanderous churches
whom pour water over your head, which is nothing but that, just water.

I would say that his character is more important than his first name, which wasn't 'Jesus' in any case.

With that in mind, you can see how devil being slanderer and not a fake malevolent being, makes a lot more sense to a rational minded person.

I'm not joking when i say, that an agnostic has more chance of being 'saved' than any christian.
Agnostics can see the immorality in the 'understanding' of the scriptures and the doctrines of men.

I notice, elsewhere on your site, that you equate the word 'men' or 'man' to mean male humans specifically.

It does not, it is referring to all men, I am female but I am a man, we are all men. Men being humans.

Most likely the word being used in hebrew is adamah, which means 'man' and is where the name of the first man comes from, but infact it is the name of the species.

What is your honest opinion on this? Please free your mind from church doctrine as that is their understanding.

I don't want to hear church understanding, it is incorrect. I am not on an agnostic site to hear their thinking.

I will make my own mind up and so this is my understanding, mostly based on fact, rationale, morals and logic.

Christians lack these attributes, agnostics tend to have them which is why they cannot take the teachings of a supposed immoral god.

My understanding is minority, they say I am under the influence of satan rather than looking at the original languages to see the errors themselves.
Flawed logic and hypocrisy, they put evil for good, and good for evil. He does infact warn us of these things.

Quote from a very learned hebrew scholar:

"The Hebrew word "satan" means "adversary" as one who stands against another as seen in 1 Kings 11:14.

And the LORD raised up an adversary against Solomon, Hadad the Edomite; he was of the royal house in Edom.

At other times this name is translated as a proper name such as in the book of Job.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.

The Hebrew for Satan is הסטן (hasatan). The prefix ה (ha) means "the" which identifies the noun סטן (satan) is a noun and not a proper name and should therefore be translated as "the adversary." However, there is one verse where the word satan could be translated as a proper name.

1 Chronicles 21:1 Satan stood up against Israel, and incited David to number Israel.

In this verse the word satan does not include the prefix "ha" and could be translated as a proper name but upon further investigation we find that this verse is also recorded in 2 Samuel 24:1 where the "adversary" is identified as Yahweh.

Again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, "Go, number Israel and Judah."

:)

 

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