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Discussion 5 to Talk Back 89
Drowning people don't always appreciate being rescued

by: Ben

To add to this discussion (or any other,) please use the Contact form. This exchange of views has been continued. A further response to this particular item has been published as Agnostic Testimony 24.


First off, my apologies for the tone of my first letter. I am human, and I just got a little annoyed with people who can't seem to see the forrest for the "trees" of their own rationale and explanations for the obvious. I feel better now, and the tone of this note will be much lighter. (except for that last little dig I just slipped in, lol!)

Jasmine, drowning people don't always appreciate being rescued, but good people will go on doing it anyway. I will keep praying for you. (nanny nanny boo boo! See, I told you I'd keep this lighter :) ) I'm not responsible for the results of my prayers, the Lord works things according to His will. It's not a "duty" as you say. Sorry you don't appreciate it, but it's really quite beside the point. Anyway..

Just a couple of points. You mentioned a personal encounter with organized church, religion, people that obviously hurt or at least annoyed you, but nothing you said indicates you actually had a RELATIONSHIP with Jesus himself. I don't believe in the tooth fairy either, but it is comments like that that prompted my (overly) passionate response the first time. He DOES exist. It IS possible to have a relationship with Him. I DO. Either YOU have, or you have not. It's interesting to me that the moment I start talking about my relationship with Him, people start talking about religion or church, and their bad experiences. Happens every time. I hate it when people change the subject! :) Some people in this world care more about the traditions of organized religion that have come down through the years, and they infect it with their own sinful tendencies, causing the kind of experiences that have left you so caustic towards Christianity. Jesus was never all about MOST of what you see today in "religious" circles, but that does not nullify Him, his teachings, OR His deity. It just means that we as humans are batting 1000 on fouling up everything we are associated with. People responsible for the bad taste in your mouth WILL be held to account, but none of us have an excuse for rejecting Jesus because of the behavior of some who claim to follow Him. ( have you noticed I've been careful to capitalize Him? hee hee, just kidding again. See Jasmine, I don't even know you but I'm beginning to like you!)

Secondly, the "watchmaker" thing. Apparently, this is some classic Agnostic rebuttal that now has a fancy name? (Kiddin..don't get upset!) If you really think there is any other explanation than Creation, I 'll not waste any more time than just to say I believe the Bible when it says that everything that can be known about God can be seen thru Creation. If you disagree, my personal opinion is that you're avoiding him, but anyway, that's me.

I don't even know why I'm staying up so late writing all this. I just feel the need to share what I think about these matters, as you all "militantly" (your word) feel the need as well.

On last thought. When I said, you'd better be right, forgive me if that came across as a threat. That was just my poor writing. Here's what I meant. If you believe that Jesus can be dismissed, here's the dillemma. He claims He's the only way to eternal life. Scientifically (hey, you'll like this, it's scientific! :) )He's either correct, or He's incorrect in His assertion. He claims that to reject Him is to reject His gift of Life. Again, He's either correct, or incorrect. You can either acknowledge the afterlife, NOT acknowledge it, or take the Agnostic "neither confirm nor deny" approach. Either of the 3 lands you the same odds at ultimately landing on the more fun side of eternal life or death. I was simply pointing out that I hope your roll of the dice works out well for you, that's all. I EXPERIENTIALLY know what my fate will be, and that is something that cannot be explained or proven, but is nonetheless true, so I will stop. I never meant this to get to the point where it seems like I'm trying to convince you of something. As you say, you've already rejected him. It's just healthy for me to have these discourses. It's good for the soul.

All kidding and barbs aside, have a great day, and thanks for the reply. I truly meant no harm in the discussion.